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Merging Manifest and Unmanifest God Within the Heart
An interview with Karen Glueck &
Father André channeled by Karen Glueck
Interview by Dan Shaw
reprinted from Life Times, Issue #4, 1986
"I spent the first half of my life trying to be normal," says Karen Glueck. "I was born in Florida in 1951, grew up on M&M’s peanuts, graduated from college, studied classical ballet, married and divorced a wealthy Louisianan."
"I tried to ignore the visitations I had as a child from Ascended Masters, the American Indian who showed up one day and declared that he would be my teacher for two years, my curing myself of cancer at the age of 29, the fact that ever since I can remember I could see and hear things my family and friends couldn’t."
It wasn’t until 1979 that Karen Glueck finally let go of being normal. While on a meditation course she opened up as a channel, a person through whom beings from other dimensions speak. She moved to Texas, married another channel, dropped out of graduate school, studied rebirthing (breath work) and gave past life readings.
In 1981, she began channeling Father André, a wise and witty Ascended Master who lived 300 years in his last lifetime, changing personas, and ending up as a Carmelite abbot in France in the late 17th century. At that time he did not die; following the example of his teacher, Jesus, he expanded out into the universe and ascended.
Father André, as channeled by Karen Glueck, has become known throughout the country for his crystal clarity and ability to lead people, through love and forgiveness, to greater fulfillment and consciousness in their lives. He has founded One World Life Services (OWLS) based in Austin, Texas with the purpose of ascending the planet.
Karen, her husband, Charles Glueck, and sons Seraphim and David live in the hill country otuside of Austin, and travel throughout the United States giving seminars and consultations guided by Father André.
DS: What is channeling?
KG: There are many kinds of channeling. You can channel your higher self and you can channel another being. There is the classic trance medium like Edgar Cayce, who is probably the most famous channel in American history. He is called the “sleeping prophet”. He would go into a trance and a voice speaking through him would diagnose medical illnesses for people. Yet he would have no memory of it. Then there are channels like myself who have chosen to be conscious channels, to work with various Ascended Masters. When I channel, I am in a meditative state while also being aware of my body. I expand out and witness Father André talking.
DS: We will discuss Ascended Masters in a minute. Can these beings you channel be people who have died?
KG: You can channel just about anybody you want to channel. Everybody channels every day. You channel yourself. Your own higher self comes through your physical body, so everybody is channeling. Channeling an Ascended Master is such an incredible experience that unless there were a necessity, I cannot imagine wanting to channel someone who is just temporarily out of body and not fully enlightened.
DS: How do you attune yourself to these Ascended Masters you channel?
KG: It is always an agreement on both sides, and Father André supports me in my process of surrender. Through meditation I gain the ability to transcend, to move into a state of bliss and peace with the universe and with God. In that state I am able to surrender to the vibratory rate of Father André and allow it to merge with my physical body.
DS: How did you begin to channel?
KG: There are several answers to that, and they are all the same answer. The first is that this is my purpose and I agreed to do this before I came into this physical incarnation, into this physical body. I literally programmed within my genetic structure certain events to happen, triggering events, where something will trigger the release of an ability or some awareness that has been dormant in myself.
Then there are those who supported me to open up and how that support happened. In 1975 I was taught to meditate and have been doing so twice a day since then. It has had a profound impact not only on my consciousness but also on my physiology. Later, when I was 28, I walked into a health food store, and there was an American Indian there who told me who I was, where I came from, and that he would be teaching me for two years. He thought I was a dumb white woman, but he had been assigned to me by someone who apparently saw some value in me anyway.
I was with him one day toward the end of the two years when he took me to the house of a Rosicrucian woman who was near death. He said that she had a gift for me and would I take it? I had no idea what that meant. I wanted to know what it was, so I badgered him, but he would not tell me. Finally he said I would have to intuit. So I said yes. Nothing happened on the spot so I decided that was another one of his crazy games.
However, six months after l accepted this gift, I was in meditation with a group of people and spontaneously opened up as a channel. The room was filled with a deep golden light, I felt this immense wisdom of the ages rush through me; it was an exquisite feeling. I channeled this ancient woman who I call Ma. It was a merging process. I felt deep power, deep kindness, deep compassion. I channeled a message to one of my friends. It was a very beautiful experience. That was in 1979.
DS: How do your other psychic abilities enhance your channeling?
KG: Every area that is open to me, clairvoyance, partial telepathy, projecting and working with energy, and reading the Akashic records, Father André has access to also. When he comes through me, he accepts the limitations that I believe I have; he does not force an area of my brain to open up that I am not yet willing to use. The more that is open in me, the more readily available my system is to channel whatever he wants to say. For example, I have had a resistance to prophesy. He sneaks it in now and again, but he has to really work to move through my barriers on prophecy because I am just beginning to surrender to my abilities as a prophet.
DS: Do you use a crystal to aid you in channeling?
KG: No. I was told by a very excellent healer who does cranial adjustment that I have all 24 basic channels open in my head, all primary and secondary ones. In order to be a better channel, he suggested that I did not need to open up more to the universe, but instead I needed to connect more with my physical body and the physical world. So when I do a lot of channeling, I put a piece of pyrite rock under my chair because it helps me to ground.
DS: What negative aspects are there to channeling?
KG: It is an “iffy” profession on this planet. In a lot of lifetimes I created being killed for being an oracle. It is my intention not to die this time. I went through three years of great difficulty wondering, “Is this a gift or is there something wrong with me?” Even though it felt wonderful and everyone gained value from my work, I did not have the support of a societal framework to give it normalcy. The religion I was raised in did not prepare me for this. So it was very powerful for me to read the book Exiles from the Snow and to discover that the Tibetan culture honors and supports its channels.
DS: So please tell us, who is Father André?
KG: Father André lived for three hundred years in his last lifetime, until the late 1600’s. During that time he changed personas regularly because when you do not die people become suspicious. He had several very famous personas, but as far as channeling goes, he prefers the anonymity of “Father André” because it does not get in the way of his message. He took this name when he retreated into a Carmelite monastery in Northern France, which was dedicated to the Virgin Mary. There he became a Rosicrucian abbot and ascended.
DS: What is the meaning of ascension?
KG: Ascension means that you give up the belief that you have to stop being here to be someplace else, or that you have to die to be someplace else. Father André gave up the idea of death and he mastered the physical plane by surrendering to it totally. He experienced that the physical is limitless and that God is everywhere, in all things, and he merged with that. He emphasizes the fact that he has a physical body, and that it is without limitation. In the Christian tradition it is called glorified ﬂesh, gloriﬁed body. Jesus ascended, and that ability is open for all of us. Father André is our potential. He is here to guide us to our ascension, to go beyond death, to move into unity consciousness. His purpose is to end death and establish unity consciousness on this planet by the year 2000.
DS: Are there any other points you would like to bring up before we talk to Father André?
KG: Yes. It is very important for people who channel consciously to continue their spiritual growth. If I were picking a channel, I would ask him or her what they are doing for their own growth, and if they are surrendering to the support of others. My biggest issue with channeling is getting stuck in the role of teacher, I keep looking to see if I am maintaining my ability to surrender. Yogananda’s teacher told him, “If I ever lose my way, put my head in your lap and remind me.” I’ve met some good channels and yet there is often a rigidity there because they have not continued their evolution. Let’s talk to Father André now.
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FA: What do you want to talk about? How I opened up as a channeler, yes?
DS: Does ascension mean speeding up your vibrations to light speed?
FA: That is sort of preferring one vibratory rate over another, yes? I won’t do that. I say that I have no limitations and I enjoy being everywhere. I take on a vibratory rate that you have and often times intermingle with the crowds, working in that way. I work through my channels, I work with people on the astral level. I’m a busy being, yes?
DS: What qualities do you look for in your channels?
FA: There has to be a certain level of purity in the body. You want to have as little distortion as possible. Then, of course, you have to have the willingness of the person. They have to overcome a great deal of fear and programming to open up, yes? One time I was talking to Karen about possession. She had someone come to her who was very afraid of being possessed. All people are possessed as long as they have judgments, fears, angers and hurts; that is what possesses them. It takes a certain amount of courage and trust in God to let someone share your being. You’re terrified to leave your house open, much less your body, so it takes a lot of trust. So I look for high levels of trust in God.
Then, of course, the person has to want to serve the planet, because to be one of my channels is a pretty all-consuming job; it requires immense dedication. The person also has to be willing to be continually confronted with their own healing, because when you channel truth, it will continually push up everything that is untrue about you. To have a vibratory rate of absolute truth come through you means that any untruth is going to start healing out, which means that you will be in a constant state of healing until you are done, yes?
DS: Until you have ascended.
FA: Yes, and the physiology is extremely important. A person has to have a very receptive, sensitive physiology, and enormous resilience because the body has to carry immense amounts of energy through it. People have to be fairly close to ascension themselves to be a very good channel. Otherwise, they are going to be busy healing themselves and they’ll only channel once every two or three years. For someone to channel on a daily basis they have to be almost done or they’ll lose it, they’ll fall apart on you, yes? People who will have some truth come through them and suddenly they’re on the streets with a placard saying the world will end or something, they go over the deep end, yes? So you have to have someone who has a tremendous amount of centeredness, flexibility and resilience. Why, are you looking for a job?
DS: I’m sure it would be very rewarding.
FA: I always warn my channels, there will be times when they will wish that they had never started channeling, but that passes. And the rewards are great, they are given an opportunity to make an incredible difference on the planet and to experience other people healing, people opening up to being God. The greatest gift is that it intensifies their own healing process.
DS: Would you tell us your path to ascension?
DS: Tantric yoga?
FA: Sex. You see, there is a male and a female aspect to God. For many lifetimes I spent a great deal of time following the masculine path, being a monastic being, merging with the unmanifest God, varying religions, and I just couldn’t quite complete. I joined the Carmelite order finally, and I began to worship Divine Mother in the form of the Virgin Mary. That’s pretty safe you know, she’s not coming around, yes?
DS: (laughing) Yes.
FA: So I began to worship the female aspect of God from a distance. And then even though I was an abbot in a monastery, it occurred to me that if truly the feminine principle were God also, that surrendering to a woman might have extreme value, yes? And in my final surrender to woman, I gave up the idea that woman was evil, that woman caused the Fall, that woman was an illusion. I gave up all that and bowed to the feet of the feminine aspect of God: Creation. For I had already bowed to the feet of the male aspect of God many times. There was a merging that took place within me that I am manifest and unmanifest, I am non-creation and creation; I am all of this and everything I experience is God. And so at that moment all limitation fell off, and I ascended.
People often ask me what my greatest overcoming was, and it was my knees. I hadn’t bowed to creation yet and kneeling on those cold monastic floors was just murder. It took me a long time to get through that. For everybody it is different things. It wasn’t heavy theologic problems, just surrender, yes?
DS: Why do you come through a channel when you can materialize a body?
FA: I do both. I talked to you once when I met you in California, but you didn’t notice. I come through somebody else’s body and for some reason people sit up and take notice. I like disguises. I like to come as bums and women with curlers in their hair, and to come to people who aren’t expecting it. You’re not doing this interview by chance!
DS: I think not.
FA: Sometimes I wear a business suit. And often times I will speak through people who allow me but don’t know it consciously, even your parents maybe, hah! And I appear to Karen very often as a bird, a cardinal. I always wanted to be a cardinal, never got past being an abbot, you know!
DS: Because past lives are an important part of our healing work, I'd like to discuss a past life that you refer to as the Council lifetime. As I understand it, the Council lifetime is the time when souls first incarnated on the physical plane.
FA: It’s rather difficult to explain about past lives, because you see, it is an illusion that you have ever been born or died. People say, “How did we fall from grace?” Ultimately you never have, it is just an illusion. And if we are going to move out of the illusion, we use the illusion to awaken us, yes?
In many theologies there is the story about the good and bad angels. What I call them is the Council. There was a Council of beings, and they basically lived pretty well together, and then there came this great debate about whether God was manifest or unmanifest. Over the issue the Council split. We call the council that believed in the unmanifest God the Original Council and the council the believed in the manifest God we call the Rebel Council.
You can see this distinction in different religions. You have shamanistic religions which are basically, “God is physical.” God is the entity in this tree, or God is in the clouds, or God is in the rain, or the ocean. And then you have the “God is unmanifest” religions like Buddhism, where there is this desire to merge into the unmanifest, to give up all this physical stuff, yes?
The truth is both are valid. For God is manifest and unmanifest. And the trick here in this lifetime is to support people to merge these two back together. To give up their loyalty to the Original Council or the Rebel Council and to join the Ascended Council where there is no conflict between the physical and the non-physical.
Death and dying occur through denial of either aspect of God. For where there is denial there is separation. Where there is denial there is not God. For God is the ultimate truth and the ultimate unity. Therefore, that which we call denial and separation must be an illusion, for God is an unlimited being.
DS: So people have never lost the ability to ascend?
FA: Yes. I would take it a step further. People only believe that they have not ascended. Because everything is ascended, everything is God already. That is why evolution is very important but ultimately unnecessary. You have never been separated from God.
A lot of people mistake the illusion for creation. Creation does exist but it does not exist the way you see it. And creation is as eternal as the unmanifest is eternal. It’s just the illusion that is not eternal.
DS: Did Paradise or the Garden of Eden really exist?
FA: When people ﬁrst began to have the experience of incarnating, it was called Paradise. There was no death. The separation had not yet occurred. This vibratory frequency was not disturbed. But because of denial, death began to appear and limitation began to appear. Ultimately there is this blame: the Original Council thought, “I had to incarnate because of the Rebels," and the Rebels said, “I have to die because of you.” This vibratory rate you call the physical dimension has always been your vibratory rate. You simply haven’t been aware of it. It’s like saying all I need is my head.
DS: What was your role in the Council lifetime?
FA: There is another aspect, people who withdrew, who said, “I will not partake in this.” I had a tendency toward withdrawal. That is why I am meddlesome now. I choose to be responsible for the unification of the Council. I did lean more toward Original Council. I had to integrate that Divine Mother is truly God.
DS: I understand that in the Council lifetime Karen prophesied that the Council would split.
FA: And that it would reunite. She wasn’t willing to give the second half of the prophesy, so now she has to ﬁnish it. That is one of her purposes in channeling for me now. You must never make the model given to you a relic. Not even the work I give you. Please do not do that. I work through my channels, and my channels are always opening up to higher levels. Don’t be attached to what was said two years ago or two months ago. As the vibratory rate of this planet opens up, we will be able to give clearer knowledge.
DS: So the Council lifetime was before separation, before denial...
FA: It’s difficult to talk about before separation or denial because in God there can be no separation or denial. So we are talking about something that never happened, but it seems very real to you, and there was a time when it was real to me, and that is where compassion enters the picture, to have compassion for the misperception. Compassion comes from knowing the truth and in opening to it. Sympathy comes from believing in the illusion.
DS: Physical immortality isn’t the ultimate?
FA: It is to remain physical and non-physical.
DS: And is that ascension?
FA: Ascension is remaining physical and non-physical forever.
DS: Yes, I’ll have to keep that in mind as I read the immortalist literature.
FA: Yes, well it is written mostly by Rebels who don't value the non-physical so much.
DS: So it is an illusion that we have lost our God powers.
FA: lt’s a pretty good one, isn‘t it? You believe it.
DS: I am wondering how to present this to the readers of this interview.
FA: That you are someone who wants to claim back your God powers and you haven't quite done it yet. At least you‘re up to the possibility of it.
DS: We all have the possibility to regain our God powers...
FA: That we have never lost. Yes. You see it is an interesting thing to talk about. For example, many people in the sixties, seventies and eighties have used hallucinogens, which I do not recommend, by the way. You have at least seen TV shows where someone is on drugs and they are surrounded by people who are not, yes? This person on drugs has the definite reality that something major is happening and everybody else is looking around saying, “I don’t see anything." But the person using the drug or hallucinogen is definitely witnessing some event, yes?
FA: That is how we, the Ascended Masters, view you. You are very much like hallucinating people. You think you are seeing something real. And it is very real for the person who is hallucinating. But for us, we are very clear that you are just hallucinating. So in modern jargon of your society we would say that we are helping you come down from a bad trip. Drugs are not appropriate because we want you to open up, not go into more illusion. I recommend meditation. It takes a little longer, but it is more permanent, hah!
DS: What other methods of healing, like meditation and affirmations, are particularly valuable?
FA: Rebirthing, primaling, body therapies such as shiatsu, Rolﬁng, Trager release work, InterphasEl body work and nutrition. l support people to choose simple, beautiful lifestyles, order and harmony, environment enhancers such as rose water, incense, candles, good literature, music that opens you up or creates harmony for you. Many people think that heavy rock sounds are bad for you. Those are usually Original Council people. I'm not into heavy rock sounds, but certain vibratory rates are good for opening up the lower chakras.
DS: You also have people in your group use Psycho-Kinesiology.
FA: It is excellent, using the body to test for answers. You have to be very good at it in order to get the truth, but it’s valid. lt’s still in its infancy, but it is being perfected. We are working on things like gentle birth, gentle death, non-technology birth, non-technology death. Not that technology is wrong. I do not come from a space that thinks that. l am simply pointing out the most expanded and evolutionary path.
DS: So one way we can support these beings coming into the world now is through gentle birth.
FA: Yes, and also by being willing to know why they are coming in. To use astrology, palmistry, clairvoyance, if you have it, and telepathy. There should be a telepath at every birth so that the child never has a sense of losing connection and can always communicate what is going on with him. Preferably the parents, but if the parents aren't opened up, then a good telepath.
DS: Would you speak in general about the souls that are now incarnating?
FA: It varies from year to year because astrologically there are different vibratory rates that support different frequencies. So a few years ago we had a number of Lemurians incarnate, now we are back to a high level of Atlantean persons incarnating. A lot of empaths came a few years ago, and now we have a lot of telepaths and clairvoyants. A lot of communicators are coming in, and some people with a very high level of technology came in last year. It is certainly a lot cleaner to use one small crystal to power New York City than all those other things you use.
DS: You are working with the group One World Life Services (OWLS) and with individuals. Are there also other groups?
FA: Fifteen others. None with the potential at this point of OWLS. This will be my major group. That doesn’t mean the other groups are not important, it is just that this is the vehicle I'm using to reach out in a large way. I'm easy, l‘ll work with anybody who wants to work with me.
DS: What other ways are being used to reunite the Council?
FA: Many ways. There are people working in physiology, great nutritionists, psychic surgeons, meditative masters transferring Shaktipat to open people up on the physical dimension, great writers channeling inspired work, great technologies being brought forth at this time for a cleaner environment, and guides that support politicians for a more politically sound environment. We have space travel opening up, and many psychotherapists now opening as channels.
DS: You have commented that within 15 years there will be a definite shift into Paradise.
FA: That is my intention. I don’t order you around. That’s a very important point. I am a guide. I guide you to your power. I am not interested in running your lives. I am interested in you being God.
DS: Will Paradise be heralded by a type of planetary clockwork, planetary alignment, great Earth changes like pole shifts?
FA: There is divine free will and divine plan. They merge perfectly. We are working towards gentle birth in the human body, pain is not necessary, contractions are not necessary. That is true in the birthing of your consciousness and it is true in the birthing of your planet.
I am here to advocate gentle birth for your planet. I don’t think it needs to thrash around from one tilt to the other, yes? It will do what it does. We are here as midwives to birth it as beautifully and as gently as possible, given the karma and the decisions that the planetary consciousness is making. As we move through the karma, transcend it. I am not interested in acting it out; transcend it through forgiveness and surrender. Then you have more gentle birth.
DS: What types of changes are we seeing now?
FA: The types of changes I like talking about are things like your movies. Look at the quality of your movies coming out, for example E.T. and Space Camp. They certainly expand you out beyond the gravitational pull. I would like people to give up gravity and move into levity. Other movies are coming out about uniting. Out of Africa is about dharmic partners who can never acknowledge they’re dharmic partners. And that causes people to cry and release about how much they have denied their partners. This release, this healing, allows them to move into more unity in their relationships. You have a Star Trek movie about Genesis, about a planet being transformed in the twinkling of an eye. This opens up the possibility of a miraculous transformation for your planet. So there are a lot of excellent movies being channeled right now. Politics, another area to be transformed, yes? There is not much difference between theater and politics, now is there? Children as well as adults are supporting changes. You have children going back and forth between Russia and America moving the populace to “Please do not ﬁght.” Children are your best diplomats, they are honest and they see things simply. You have some very good things moving against some very deep rooted ideas about the need for protection, the need for armaments. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi has people meditating for world peace. If you have a certain number of people meditating, a country cannot be invaded and will not invade others. It seems as if we need a few more meditators, yes? You have people becoming conscious and aware on many levels and now starting to consider that diet has something to do with disease and divine health. You have great vast natural food stores opening up. You have your hamburger joints now offering whole wheat buns. I would greatly appreciate it if your country would quit poisoning the food they feed people. You really can’t eat poison until you’ve fully integrated that everything is God, yes? Psychotherapy is becoming commonly used. You have child abuse centers now, it is no longer socially acceptable to abuse children. So really good things are happening on this planet that are signs of evolution.
And things have not happened that have been predicted. The work being done on this planet is remarkable. For instance, the last two years, according to Nostradamus, were supposed to be years of great drought. And there has been drought, as in Africa, but the drought has not been worldwide. There are areas producing food that can give to areas that are not. So that drought has occurred but it is not at the level that it would have been. And I hope to be able to say the same thing about nuclear war, and disease; disease is the most pressing problem.
DS: On New Year’s Day you predicted that there would be two major new diseases.
FA: You have one out now called Day Care Disease. It is a mutating disease that affects the unborn children of pregnant mothers, which children bring home from day care centers. And the diseases are mutating which means that you are going to have to give up ﬁghting the disease and heal the cause of it; you have to heal the desire to die.
DS: I think you have answered all the questions I have prepared.
FA: There’s one thing you haven’t asked me — “How do I open up to my guides?” For I wish all people to know that they have the capacities to open up to their guides. Simply by declaring the intention to. That’s the way to start. The second thing you can do is to diet. I don’t mean fanatically, like just grapes or something. Just eliminate the meat, alcohol, chemicals and sugar. Eat wholesome simple food. Keep lightening your diet in a balanced way. Spend more time in meditation and less time with TV and such. It will do you no good to open up to your guides if you are not willing to use the guidance. So you have to look to see if you really want to open up. It is not necessarily an easy path, however it is fulfilling. People come to me and say they want to open up as a channel or a psychic or a teacher, and I generally make them think it over for thirty days. They have no idea the purification necessary.
DS: Is there anything further you would like to present to the readers of this interview?
FA: The questions you have asked were channeled. The only thing I would add is to celebrate. Celebrate this process, don’t be afraid of it. In birth if you are afraid, it makes the birth very hard. So if you are afraid of Earth changes or of what is happening, heal the fear. Don’t suppress it, heal it. And then celebrate. In celebration birth goes very easily. God bless you.
Permission to reprint if credit given to Daniel Evan Shaw.